Stirring the discussion...
Hey brothers,
It's been awhile since the discussion has been going, and I was hoping to start a new discussion that is related to most of the discussions we've been having, and something I have been experiencing myself since I entered into Seminary. Thinking back to Bonhoeffer's book Life Together, which I haven't read in ages but only vaguely remember a passage of (I'll have to do some investigating), I seem to remember him talking about 'spiritual community,' and how it cannot exist apart from or take the place of natural community, because then it becomes something artificial, something unhealthy. Rather 'spiritual community' is something that augments natural community, that is, our current friendships, family relations, traditions, and natural roles that we filled, which are rooted in who we are naturally (our personalities and temperments) and how they come together to make a sort of culture, whether that's a family culture, the culture of a group of friends, or the culture of a church as an association of many different families and their friendships, and the connections, roles, and dynamics that develop naturally. So my question is, how does our trinitarian community through the Spirit of God, our 'spiritual community,' interact with our natural communities?
This is something I have begun to question in myself, a question that has arisen out of a deepening doubt in myself and my ability to minister to anyone, feeling quite overwhelmed with the calling to study, think, grow, and also die daily and give myself up for my brothers and sisters, for God and my neighbor, always feeling there is more I could give, but that I don't want to or can't, and I am really exhausted. Mentally exhausted for running over and over again in my head how I could have been more loving, could have been more charitable, feeling selfish even for taking a few moments to do something I wanted to do for myself but feeling like I needed that.
Out of this doubt I have really begun to evaluate who I am, what my own personality is like, and how I fit into my family, my friendships, and the community here at Dubuque Seminary. I think that before I was trying to be 'spiritual' in a sense that was not very natural, was not really myself, and it felt like I was being fake when I did it, and I was being selfish when I did not. The reality is were are called to be disciples of Christ, but we cannot help every suffering person, we cannot feed every hungry person, we cannot fix all of the problems of the world or even our families, and to think that we can do so is very overwhelming. I felt completely responsible, but completely helpless both at once. Several times I have wanted to quit, to give the whole thing up and just get an easy job somewhere, maybe come back to Wichita and spend time with my family and friends there.
But I think that I've been going about it all wrong, trying to be 'spiritual' unnaturally, and I think that I see that going on in a lot of ways all around me. People ask me "Eric, how are you doing," and I know that they care, but do they really want to hear how I'm doing, and do I really want to tell them? People say "How are you doing?" unstead of a simple "Hello" these days, and I think that it's all well meaning and that they do care, but everybodies so busy we don't have time to care. But I think I'm getting into another topic here. So I reiterate my question, how does 'spiritual community' relate to our own natural communities, and how do we live out our calling in obedience without feeling like we have to save everyone, or that we even can?
It's been awhile since the discussion has been going, and I was hoping to start a new discussion that is related to most of the discussions we've been having, and something I have been experiencing myself since I entered into Seminary. Thinking back to Bonhoeffer's book Life Together, which I haven't read in ages but only vaguely remember a passage of (I'll have to do some investigating), I seem to remember him talking about 'spiritual community,' and how it cannot exist apart from or take the place of natural community, because then it becomes something artificial, something unhealthy. Rather 'spiritual community' is something that augments natural community, that is, our current friendships, family relations, traditions, and natural roles that we filled, which are rooted in who we are naturally (our personalities and temperments) and how they come together to make a sort of culture, whether that's a family culture, the culture of a group of friends, or the culture of a church as an association of many different families and their friendships, and the connections, roles, and dynamics that develop naturally. So my question is, how does our trinitarian community through the Spirit of God, our 'spiritual community,' interact with our natural communities?
This is something I have begun to question in myself, a question that has arisen out of a deepening doubt in myself and my ability to minister to anyone, feeling quite overwhelmed with the calling to study, think, grow, and also die daily and give myself up for my brothers and sisters, for God and my neighbor, always feeling there is more I could give, but that I don't want to or can't, and I am really exhausted. Mentally exhausted for running over and over again in my head how I could have been more loving, could have been more charitable, feeling selfish even for taking a few moments to do something I wanted to do for myself but feeling like I needed that.
Out of this doubt I have really begun to evaluate who I am, what my own personality is like, and how I fit into my family, my friendships, and the community here at Dubuque Seminary. I think that before I was trying to be 'spiritual' in a sense that was not very natural, was not really myself, and it felt like I was being fake when I did it, and I was being selfish when I did not. The reality is were are called to be disciples of Christ, but we cannot help every suffering person, we cannot feed every hungry person, we cannot fix all of the problems of the world or even our families, and to think that we can do so is very overwhelming. I felt completely responsible, but completely helpless both at once. Several times I have wanted to quit, to give the whole thing up and just get an easy job somewhere, maybe come back to Wichita and spend time with my family and friends there.
But I think that I've been going about it all wrong, trying to be 'spiritual' unnaturally, and I think that I see that going on in a lot of ways all around me. People ask me "Eric, how are you doing," and I know that they care, but do they really want to hear how I'm doing, and do I really want to tell them? People say "How are you doing?" unstead of a simple "Hello" these days, and I think that it's all well meaning and that they do care, but everybodies so busy we don't have time to care. But I think I'm getting into another topic here. So I reiterate my question, how does 'spiritual community' relate to our own natural communities, and how do we live out our calling in obedience without feeling like we have to save everyone, or that we even can?
posted by Anonymous at 2:55 PM
10 Comments:
Eric,
Thanks for the post. I am glad to see that the blog is not forgotten. In fact, we were talking about your posting tonight; I expect good dicussion to ensue. That being said, I'm going to have to give it some thought. There are multiple ways I could begin to respond, but I would rather do so when I've properly hashed it a little. As a beginning thought though, I believe that Michael Barrett had something along the lines tonight. I wonder if our ability to successfully do so, find spiritual community among the natural community, is perhaps found when we are able to look at each other in light of the adoption we have in Christ as part of God's family, whether it be in a Christian setting or a secular one. Could it be that our perspective alone can limit or allow us to experience actual Christian community? I'll do more thinking and get back to it. Great Question Eric, and one with extremely practical effects. Blessings, miss you both.
-Mike-
Yeah, that's good and helpful. Keep it coming (Barrett, you should post). Again for me it goes back to the quote at the top of our blog, that Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood, maybe familyhood and neighborhood) is not an ideal to be realized, as I tend to want to make it, but a reality to be seen as we look at each other (or ourselves as we are). It's not established by the church but by God. Thanks for your insight, keep thinking, this is already helpful to me.
Sorry, I think I jumped the gun in my reply. When you speak of the adoption we have in Christ, I begin thinking of Romans 8. Was this the context of your discussion?
Eric said:
"how does 'spiritual community' relate to our own natural communities, and how do we live out our calling in obedience without feeling like we have to save everyone, or that we even can?"
I've thought, reluctantly, on this and some similar things recently. I'm not mentally equipped at the moment to answer this, or anything really, but the thing that keeps running through my head is just be. If we would just let things go, and just be as created.
But I feel I'm shooting at a different target than was presented.
re:Beardo
I'm not sure what I said, but I think it dealt with how we tend toward an individualist perspective in things instead of donning the corporate persona of the Kingdom community.
I guess, my own question, are there spiritual implications to creatureliness (community of created order) that precede or exist alongside the spiritual bonds tying us (Christ community) together in Christ?
Yep Eric, that was the context. I was actually thinking about Barth's idea when I typed it. Just this morning, I was reading Humanity of God by Barth and he expanded on our purpose as believers to reveal, help wake up if you will other people to the reality of what Christ has done. So I guess in our discussion I believe that we could maybe begin to understand and experience what you are mentioning when we understand humanity as one not in flux so much as one reconciled wholly in Christ. To me, this begins the movement of solidarity that is required to live among our "natural communities."
I'll be back with more. Hopefully.
Happy Thanksgiving all, blessings to all of you.
-Beardo-
Hey Eric,
How does this fit with your exp. at Dubuque? I knew that it was hard at first to find that community, spiritual or natural...perhaps I have it all wrong. What do you think?
I can’t even begin to tell you guys how pumped I am that we’re having this conversation. I’ve been reading back over my capstone paper that I wrote on community and I can’t help but notice that a lot of things that I wrote back then are actually coming up. And one selfish sidebar before I dive into this: I’m going to write a blog series on community before my mission trip, then I’m going to rewrite it after. So this discussion is sure to help me in some immense ways.
Eric, I’m really glad that you asked the question, “how does ‘spiritual community’ relate to our own natural communities, and how do we live out our calling in obedience without feeling like we have to save everyone, or that we even can?” This is something that I wrestled with at church one Sunday. Let me share the story.
There’s a guy that attends church on the street named Khaalis. He is really cool and he’s been Muslim for some time. We had a pretty intense conversation one day about our beliefs. I felt the most pressure I’ve ever felt that when I left that conversation, Khaalis needed to have accepted Jesus as the Christ, repented, etc. Then at some point throughout our discussion, it hit me like a ton of bricks: Khaalis is just someone searching for the truth. In fact, I think it’s easier on me – maybe this is a copout – but to view everyone as someone searching for truth. At times, I think we just search for it in the wrong places (which inevitably results in sin in most cases). We can't save everybody and frankly, we don't save ANYBODY. We just have the privilege of guiding many into the arms of their one true Savior. I think that maybe our obedience doesn't lay in the outcome, but our willingness to step up obey.
And I don’t know how many times I never want to stop. I can’t help but notice hundreds of hungry people, hear stories of dying kids, hear of people with AIDS, helpless, poor, etc. and not want to do something about it. It takes all I have to hold back. I just don’t want to stop working towards justice, towards the Kingdom. But I’ve reached the point that I’ve been burnt out and completely fed up. I actually got to a point that I felt like it was completely hopeless.
Eric, you said that “the reality is were are called to be disciples of Christ, but we cannot help every suffering person, we cannot feed every hungry person, we cannot fix all of the problems of the world or even our families, and to think that we can do so is very overwhelming. I felt completely responsible, but completely helpless both at once.”
Enter community.
What is its role supposed to be? I think it’s important that we look towards that. What do you consider to be a natural community? What exactly is a spiritual community?
I think Bonhoeffer sums it up well with the concepts of human love (natural/human community) and spiritual love (spiritual/Christian community). He says, “human love is directed to the other person for his own sake, spiritual love loves him for Christ’s sake.” Each has its characteristics.
Beardo, you said, “I wonder if our ability to successfully do so, find spiritual community among the natural community, is perhaps found when we are able to look at each other in light of the adoption we have in Christ as part of God's family, whether it be in a Christian setting or a secular one.” I think this is right.
Again, I like what Bonhoeffer says about this. “Christianity means community through Jesus Christ and in Jesus Christ… we belong to one another only through and in Jesus Christ.” In other words, ultimately, community does not begin in that all involved in it are hopeless sinners. Community begins and is grounded in the fact that everyone involved is one who belongs in Christ Jesus.
It is easy, especially for Christians in today’s society, to want to identify themselves with their commonness in sin. Bonhoeffer suggests that they do not do that. If that is the case, it becomes a hopeless band of individuals. However, a community with its foundations rooted in Christ is a community with a drive, with a hope, with a force greater that its own. It is a community that embraces the continuity of Christ and his impact on it, and allows that collision to carry it into the future. Granted, I think that a lot of times it’s easier to find ‘oneness’ with one another when we’re most broken, but I think it’s healthier when it’s a brokenness that also proclaims our need for Christ.
And Mick, you said, “I guess, my own question, are there spiritual implications to creatureliness (community of created order) that precede or exist alongside the spiritual bonds tying us (Christ community) together in Christ?” I guess my question to this is, what would the result of a lifetime of human community (here I’m saying ‘community of created order’) be without Christ? I suppose we could turn to the pages of history to find our answer, but I’m just wondering what it might look like in today’s world… perhaps a carbon copy of what we find in history?
I think there’s a necessity to Christ community, Mick. Can community of created order transcend death? I don’t think it can. I believe that Christ community, however, has, does, and will.
This is my two cents on all of this. Sorry it’s a lot of rambling nonsense…
I love you guys, probably too much from human love than spiritual love.
I'm pretty excited about this conversation.
Sorry, I'm just checking in at the moment to let you guys know that I am listening, and it's all good stuff. I hope to be able to answer your question soon Beardo. Right now it's crunch time here, and I am mentally exhausted with still more work to do.
I ask you guys for your prayer in regards to being able to finish the semester as responsibly as possible, and also for discernment as to whether or not to stay this course.
My doubts have led me to begin to reconsider whether being in seminary here is what God wants or if it is what I thought I wanted. My idea of what this would be like has come crashing down, and as the dust settles I see the wake of underdeveloped relationships behind me. My heart calls me back to Wichita, though I'm not sure yet what that means. I'm trying to discern if this is God or me. Eva is getting along fine here, and seems to be starting to enjoy her job, but long term I don't know if that will hold out. She seems to be supportive of whatever decisions I make in this regard even to her own detriment (what a woman!)
I need some time of prayerful silence to 'decongest' my head and my heart, so that I can think clearly. So I ask for prayers for us, and I hope to check back in with this after finals are over in a couple of weeks.
In Christ's love,
Eric
You and Eva and you-and-Eva will most definitely be in my prayers, brother.
Well, after Matt threw down on this post, there's not much left to say.
Suffice for me to say that this semester has been probably the hardest and least inspiring of all, and I haven't felt much like being in ministry, at least in the capacity I have. I've only wanted to escape the nagging feelings of guilt that have stolen my sleep at night. So I've had to come to grips with my approach to life, my wanting to be perfect, my pipe dreams of the future, my fears and wants for approval and feeling like I pleased everyone and noone could accuse me of anything; basically I've been a mess.
But in this time I've also experienced anew what it's like to be honest with God, to approach the Bible and Christian discussion in general with humility, knowing that I don't know much, and there are so many wonderful things to learn from others, to be accepted as I am (and accept myself), to know what it's like to be a friend (and even much better, to have one), to think that God actually smiles down on us with love, but still wants us to grow up, and to have absolutely no idea what will happen in the future, and be okay with it.
So that's about it.
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